Project '66 Engine Rebuild

[BuginU2]

New topic for the work I'm doing on the engine this winter.....

My '66 has been in the garage since the beginning of November.  I pulled the motor with the sole intention of replacing the clutch... however while I had the engine out I thought I might as well look at the heads.  Since I had the heads off, I might as well check the deck height to make sure I'm running the right compression.  And since I'm checking all of that, I might as well crack the case open and see if I have any damage from racing....

First a bit about the motor - It is a 1835cc with a fairly fresh case machined for full-flow.  The crank is stock - but drilled for an 8-dowel flywheel.  The cam, rods, push rods and dual port heads are stock.  I have a lightened flywheel.  I'm running dual Kadrons and a 009 with Pertronics.  Best quarter mile time is 17.2.  There is no logic to the parts selection... it was just what I swept off the floor.

Now the case is cracked open and everythings has been cleaned.  I found NO metal shavings or chunks in the motor (which was a relief). 
- The exhaust valves on 2 and 4 are a light brown while the others are fairly black.  I had been running a bit rich. 
- The tops of the pistons are black with some carbon build-up.  I didn't see any cracks.  The barrels show some interesting wear marks.  I will take some pics later of this.
- The case had no leaks or cracks.
- The crank and main bearings looked like new.  I do not have the rods off yet, so I haven't checked for wear there yet.
- The cam had a really interesting wear pattern on the lobes which were caused by the lifters.  The lifters are dished in the middle (instead of domed).  The lobes on the cam show this same wear pattern.  I will take a picture of this as well.
- The gears looked good - no cracks, missing teeth, abnormal wear patterns.

Trying to come up with a plan now....

1. Replace cam and lifters (and push rods).
2. Check on the barrel wear and see if I can salvage them.
3. Check for wear on the crank/rods.
4. Reassemble.

I'm thinking about going with something different on the cam... not sure what at this time.  As usual the budget available is almost nothing.  I may need to purge the parts pile more to fund this.... :)

[BusDriver]

When you see a dish in your lifter in my experiance, that usally means somebody used, used lifters and didn't mark where they went. I am not sure if that is always the case but I know that is a symtom of said mismatching. (it can be other things as well, that is just something I see allot on "freshly rebuilt" engines.) Although I know a machinist that swears it does not matter where you put them, I have always been taught that where they come from is where they stay. So who knows who to belive, I just do it the way I was taught.

[BuginU2]

It is my understanding that the lifters should not be dished, but also not completely flat.  If you take two lifters and put the faces together they should rock slightly as they are supposed to be machined to a slight peak in the middle.  The lobes on the cam should be fairly flat against half of the lifter - meaning the lobe touches about half of the lifter at any time.  The lobes on my cam show a wear pattern that would indicate the lifter was dished (concave vs. convex).  I'm not sure about the placement of the lifters really.  Since this motor was built with parts I had available - they were NOT marked. 

Regardless - I'll be replacing the lifters (and most likely the cam).

Cam/Lifter image (not mine):

[66DC]

The last few motors I did I used Berg's lifters and had no problems, I would stay away from Anything CB performance related to many bad experiences with those guys.
and I'm not a fan of Scat Light weight lifter I have seen the hard facing come off the lifters under normal wear.

as far as cam the engle 110 is a nice cam and with some straight cut gears! now we are talking  8)

[BuginU2]

Here are some pics:

This is one of the lifters I pulled from the motor - as you can see, there is a concave shape to the top of the lifter.

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This picture shows the odd wear pattern on the cam lobes.  Compare it to the dishing of the lifter face and it is not far-fetched to imagine how it wore like that.

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The next two show the number 3 piston with marks on the top and bottom.   Is the piston slapping the sides of the barrels?

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Top of number 3 piston ( number 3 scratched in with fingernail)

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The inside of number 3 cylinder - if the pistons were really slapping I'd expect to see some wear in here... but I don't.

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[BuginU2]

I think I have myself a plan for this motor now....

I'm going to go ahead and get some new lifters and a mild cam and put it back together.  While I'm putting it back together, I'm going to "balance" some of the components - primarily the rods and pistons.  I got a scale the other day (to weigh my kid's cub scout pine box derby car), so I plan on getting my money's worth and verify the weight of things and shave off some weight if needed.

Once back together I'm looking into doing something a little different.  (I have to blame a member that will remain unnamed at this time for putting this idea in my head.)

EDIS with MegaJolt -http://www.boostengineering.net/product_p/vwedismjljkitblack.htm - except I don't plan on spending that much on it.  I'm pretty sure I can find the EDIS parts for around $60.  The MegaJolt module is the wild card on this.  So - what is EDIS and why it is keeping me awake at night?  Early to mid 90's Fords used Electronic Distributorless Ignition Systems - you can take these components off old Fords and they will work on just about any 4 cylinder motor.  Add in the MegaJolt module and you're setting your timing with a computer instead of a timing light.  Sure - there will be some purist that will shun me for ditching the ignition system designed by the motherland - but won't that just mess with your mind when you open the decklid and see no coil or dizzy cluttering up the engine compartment?  And when I switch over to an electric fuel pump there won't be hardly anything between the fan shroud and the decklid - just carb linkage and oil pressure/alternator wires.  <insert evil laugh here>

Worse case scenario - it doesn't work out and I put the stock dizzy back in.  Oh well.

[BuginU2]

So.... at little history here.

The '66 I have now is the second one that I've had.  The first '66 ended up being recycled into a sandbox for the kids.  I picked that first '66 up for about $600 or so.  It came with a pile of parts including a complete motor (which we thought was a 1300) and enough parts to build another one.  The "enough parts to build another one" is where most of the components came for the 1835 I am working on now.  The 1300 was put off to the side and shuttled between the garage, shed, and side of house.  I never made an attempt to start the motor or see what the deal was with it.... until Friday.

Friday - I moved the car out of the garage to make some room to work.  The 1300 was on the side of the house wrapped up in plastic.  As I was looking at the pile of parts that was my 1835 and wondering how long it was going to take to get it back together I got a crazy thought....  I wonder if that 1300 works?  It might make a good backup motor.

So I dragged the motor into the garage (it was already on my engine stand) and unwrapped the motor.  It looked pretty clean, but it was a single port and I didn't have any unable single port manifolds - let alone a functional carb for such a setup.  Hmmm.... I dug around the parts pile and found a set of dual port heads.  Bingo!  That should work. As I pulled the heads off the 1300 I noticed the serial number on the motor - hmmmm.  Quick lookup - hey this motor is a probably a 1500/1600!  Sweet! 

I put the dual port heads, push rods/tubes and the rocker arms and torqued it all up.  Now I have no idea if this motor is going to run (for all I know it has a spun bearing or other damage - so instead of putting on all of the tin - I decide to just bolt up the carbs, dizzy and fuel pump and roll it out into the cold air. I dumped the oil out of it and put some new stuff in - good so far (no chunks in the old oil).  I give it a quick valve adjustment and run the jumper cables to the H0nda.

Neighbor walks up to see what I'm up to.  Backup motor I say... no idea if it will fire up or not.

I crank it over.... oil pressure up.  Good.  The fuel pump starts filling the carb bowls.  I power up the coil and... BAM!  It starts up and starts idling.  Wow... I head back to the garage and grab the linkage for the carbs and stick them on.  With the linkage in place I can actually throttle up a little easier... good throttle response. 

So now I have what I never thought I'd have... a backup motor.  I need to get some tin out of storage and swap the flywheel out.  Of course I could just sell it to fund my other motor.......

[BuginU2]

It is tempting to sell the motor outright for sure.  The only issue is that I would never buy a motor that had such a questionable history - and I'd feel a bit dishonest about selling this motor to someone without the clue to know better.

At this point I'm half inclined to at least throw a decent flywheel on it and stick it in the car to see how it runs on the street.  Then if it isn't oiling down the street/shooting flames out of the tailpipe/sounding like a box of marbles after a month of driving it I could feel pretty confident that the motor would last a few months or longer in the possession of another.

One the other hand I still can't get past the value of having a running motor that I can slap in the car if the other motor isn't ready or out of commission.

[BusDriver]

I would keep it myself, as you will not get more than a couple hundred dollars AT MOST! And a spare is always handy.

[yellow7]

keep the motor. had a wrecking yard special a few years back with a slight knock [1500 single port] but DEQ complient.back then it was most difficult to get a built,camed motor through the process.when i needed to DEQ my  ride of the month i would use that motor.when ever i needed to freshen my GO FAST motor i would swap and go.that motor [knock and all] powered  a baja,2 beetles,an early van and lastly a kit t bucket.like any special tool the use i got from that old motor made me smile each time it baled me out.tony

[BuginU2]

I've been stuck at home for the past several days with only an occasion chance to venture out due to sick kids and wife.  During the quiet times I had the chance to finish up assembly of the "backup motor".  Originally I was going to run my dual carbs, but I had a single dual port manifold and a freshly rebuilt pict 30 available.  I figured since the car had been pushed out of the garage and into the rain I might as well put a motor back in it.  So the backup motor is installed for now.  I drove it around the block yesterday a couple times - no issues at this time. 

As for the 1835 that is sitting in pieces in the garage.... well that is exactly where it remains at this time.  I will most likely get my EDIS stuff today.  I found a guy that was parting out an mid 90s Escort.  Now I need to save up my pennies for the Megajolt module. 

[BuginU2]

I picked up the EDIS parts from a donor car that was being parted out (95 Escort).  The parts have been cleaned up and the wires labeled.  I've been working on mounting the trigger wheel to the pulley... I am going to throw this on the backup motor to see how balanced it is.  Regardless, a trip to the machine shop to have it balanced will be needed.

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[BuginU2]

Oh snap.

I dropped one of my piston/cylinders last night.  It landed on just about the only spot in the garage not covered by carpet. 

Snapped the piston skirt off one side.

They were balanced before... not anymore.

Anyone ever run with the piston skirt removed from one side?  (in order to rebalance these I would need to remove the same amount from all other pistons)

Crap.

I guess I should start working on the taxes so I can get our refund.

Anyone have a set of 92mm pistons/cylinders gathering dust?

[BuginU2]

Oh a side note, the trigger wheel I mounted on my crank pulley appears to be fairly balanced.  I put it on the backup motor and drove down to Tigard yesterday.  I still plan on getting the whole thing balanced.... but there is some good news.

[Matty]

I've got a set of 90.5  :-\