8v or 16v?

[UGoBug]

Sooo...i came across a sweet deal.  I just got a 86 GTI parts car for FREE with a clean title.  just a shell.  it doesn't even have suspension (you can see it on the trailer in the background of the picture I posted in the "got Snow" post). After researching the VIN, I found that it was orignally a 16v car, and all the body work has been done to it and it is fabulous (tinted windows even).  SO I am going to transfer all the parts off my current GTI onto this new shell and Scrap the old one (totalled title, anyways)  I was doing some digging for more parts on CL, and I ran across a complete 16V 1.8l for $300.  Complete motor and tranny out of an 87 GTI (complete as in wiring, ECU, airbox, belts, etc)  I was thinking, seein as how I gotta rip out the wiring harness and the front subframe and transfer it over anyways, why not go with a 16V.  my questions are:

is it worth $300 to go with a 16v or should I stick with my 8v, which I will have to put some work into anyways because it is blowing oil out the breather (recently discovered)??

I was told by one person it was comparing apples and oranges, but i figured it wouldn't hurt to ask.

and of course this is based on the 16v engine being in good shape (after comp test and so forth), and will be getting a tune-up and new timing belt.

My primary objectives are for this car, seein as it is a commuter:

1.  Fuel economy (therotical, of course...i get 25mpg now with the 8v)
2.  Get-up-and-go power (accelleration)
3.  reliability
4.  Not too worried about overall power, it is a commuter, not a race car.  but HP is always good.

Let me know what you think.  Keep in mind I am moving the engine anyways, so labor is not really a factor.  say I had two engine on my shop floor.  one 8v and one 16v, both of equal condition.  If given that choice, what would YOU do??

[BusDriver]

16v For the WIN!!! IF it passes muster. the wife gets 36 on the freeway at legal speed. Make sure you have a 2y or better tranny to strap on that bad boy :thumbleft: consider getting the head done at aluminum head re builders in Portland. you dont have to be fancy about it just have them redo the stock specs and use as many of the good parts as they can. Borla exhaust sounds good too Reference: Kimberley's Jetta at 65 when she buries her foot  

[BusDriver]

P.S.

You should have just bought my car------/

[UGoBug]

gotta toss in that jab, huh?  :) but then I wouldn't have the joy and pleasure of cracking my knuckles and shedding my blood, sweat and tears on a project  :D

thanks for the insight.  where do I find the markings on the tranny to tell what it is?  How does magnaflow exhaust sound?  he is tossing in a magnaflow exhaust will dual tip, and a 16v red-stripe dash, and an EIP intercooler (not sure what for) and a big bumper, and a rear hatch, etc.  check it out

http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/pts/972219406.html

its out in your neck of the woods.  I am going to pick it up tomorrow evening

[corradojeff]

ill take the front mount off your hands for cheap if ya wanting to part with it 8) also still have some bug stuff if you want ta do some tradin

[UGoBug]

i will keep that in mind.  If the CAC is any good condition, we can talk business.  I will know this evening.

[UGoBug]

well i cleaned out this guy's garage.  here is a list of things I got:

16V Red-stripe dash, complete with glove box, but someone ripped off the 16V badge (residue still there)
16V engine complete air cleaner to motor mounts, with new clutch and all the trimmings.  I cranked it over and it sounded good.  I will be doing a comp check tomorrow
tranny, unknown condition or model.  i don't know where to look for the S/N. it goes through the gears ok, but that don't mean mcuh
complete engine bay harness (he even labeled the wires!)
ECU
Knock box
complete dash wiring harness with fuse and relay boxes, all labeled and all the dash switches still attached
rear big bumper
front big bumper, but has a crack in it
GTI side moldings
GTI instrument cluster
good axles, both sides
front core support with a set of Hella H4 round lights.
Magnaflow Muffler with dual tips
exhaust twin down-pipe (stock) + manifold
EIP low mount CAC for a MK3/4.  has a couple dents but appears to be still intact.  a pressure test would be in order.

only thing missing on the engine is the P/S pump.  anyone know if the one off the 8v will work?

not a bad haul if I do say so myself for $300.

so now i just need to figure out what type of tranny it is and do a few tests on the engine.  it appears to have a new timing belt (top cover is missing)

depending on the tranny, I was told it was a good idea to pull the diff and replace the ring gear rivets with a bolt kit, so I will look into that.  other than that, i think this engine will be a good runner, based on initial observations.  I will know more tomorrow.

any known issues I should look for???

thanks!

[BusDriver]

Look on the bottom of the Tranny there will be a flat spot with the Tranny serial number on it. It will most likely start with a 2 And be like 2y...or 2tq...or something. If you are getting the tranny that came with the motor it "should" be the right one. I would not remove the diff, unless there is a reason to remove the diff as they like to leak after being removed. As for anything else I would replace the timing belt and water pump before installing it. UNLESS YOU HAVE A PIECE OF DOCUMENTATION SAYING IT HAS BEEN DONE SOMETIME IN THE LAST 50k. And I would pull the head and have it sent to Aluminum Head Rebuilders in Portland for a Spa day regardless of the compression.

Remember: no matter what it sounds like, and what the compression test says, There is a reason you are getting the most widely sought after VW engine WITH tranny for $300. The Enigine alone running should be in the $800 range and the tranny should run you $450 These are prices you can get everyday on these items, so the fact that you got them for $300 as a set tells me you should put the other $850 in to making it Pristine. You'll thank yourself later for doing it.

Oh and buy the way, by the time your done with the engine...you would have paid for my car ;-)

[CatBox]

myself i would have put the money into the 8V.  i have found i like the simplicity of it.  

when something goes bad in a 16V it goes in a bad way.  

i was going to go with the 2.0L bottom end and 1.8L head.  the heads flow decent enough.  you only have to buy one cam and the price on it is not retardedly astronmically priced.  blow a head and go to the junkyard and pick out another one.  heck pick out a couple as they are like $30 at the u-pull-it and practice your porting skills.  not so doable with the 16V.  

worry about the tranny when it blows.  the 8V will bolt in as a spare.

i have some books you can borrow if you would like.  they are all about the cars, handeling, and the engine work.  they are great for getting to know what it is that you are getting in to.

as for the car you could have bought isnt that one like 3k and as far as he is diclosing he is into it for about $900 so far.  for another grand he could have a swell running car that handels and performs very well indeed.  it doesnt need to be set up for a track day it will probablly never see.

[UGoBug]

Thanks for the insight.  I do agree with you on the 8v being a much simpler engine, but then again I don't really plan on doing any engine mods to this car ( I say that now)I just wanted a good running stocker, and I have noticed in the past few days the current engine in the car is not doing so good.  so it was time for a replacement anyways.  I just went with the 16v mostly becuase I couldn't pass up the deal.  I would've bought another 8v if the price was right.  Plus the 16v does breathe better and has a few more ponies, so bonus there.  I just want a clean healthy runner on this, because I plan on putting MORE money and effort into my baja, and Erica's bug.  at the end of the day, this is still my daily driver.

i would like to take a look at those books if I could.  that would be great!!  I do all my own engine work, including valve grinding and port work, so I plan on saving myself a load of money that way.  But before I can do that, i need to get to know this engine a bit better.  Before I use the engine, i plan on tearing into it and inspecting everything and replacing seals, at the very least.

the big thing about Todd's car, although an incredibly nice car (had to wipe up the drool) is it was already done, well for the most part.  being a big car builder nut, i get great enjoyment in doing things myself and getting my hands dirty and watching a nothing grow peice by piece into a something.  Plus it's a lot easier (and lighter on my budget) to spend $100 here, $50 there and do it over time.

So far, looking at my reciepts, i have $927 into the car to date.  I keep reciepts for everything I can.  I like to keep track of where my money went.

The only thing I was wondering about the tranny was the gear ratio.  knowing what model it is will tell me that.  I want to use the tranny with the best ratio for daily driving and "mileage"

right now I need to concentrate on getting Erica's car running by May.  I would like for her to be able to Drive it to the Bug run this year.

One thing is for sure, once I am done tearing this car apart and rebuilding it on the other body, I will know every nut and bolt of it. :)

thanks for all the info, folks!

[BusDriver]

Any Tranny that came with that engine will treat you right My guess is its a 2y or a 2qy both those should work great. Get me the number and Ill tell you what gives.